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Notes of Chelsea Supporters Trust Special General Meeting
Held at The Atlas, West Brompton – 15.15 hours on Saturday 22 February
Item 1 – Introduction and overview from board on progress since last SGM
Chairman Tim Rolls (TR) declared the meeting quorate and open. He went on to introduce the members of the CST Board present, co-opted member Ross Mooring sent apologies. He also introduced the guest speaker, Amanda Jacks (AJ) of the Football Supporters Federation. TR apologised for the meeting being held at yet another different venue, however, he explained about the difficulties in finding a suitable venue close to Stamford Bridge.
Item 2 – Updates on progress and actions regarding motions passed at AGM:-
· Ticketing / supporter issues
Persistent standing – The CST wrote an open letter to CFC CEO Ron Gourlay on 13/12/13 regarding the letters sent out threatening to ban supporters for persistent standing. RG has responded, advising that the club would like dialogue on this issue and are happy to meet to discuss matters further.
Arsenal League Cup game – Cliff Auger (CA) confirmed that a response has now been received from Arsenal FC to CST’s letter. Unfortunately this letter refuted the points put forward by CST, and issues arising from this fixture have subsequently been used as an excuse by AFC for smaller allocations to be given to Tottenham Hotspur FC and Liverpool FC in recent cup ties. CST intend to issue a follow-up letter to counteract the Arsenal arguments. Unfortunately, it is possible advice provided by Arsenal to Manchester City FC may have contributed to problems Chelsea supporters experienced in the club’s FA Cup game on 15/02.
- Safe standing areas and general atmosphere concerns
Celia Mindelsohn (CM) presented a brief explanation into the Safe Standing Survey which will be published 24/02/14. She explained the survey is a collaboration between the Trust and 20 other supporter groups, and CST members will receive an email containing the link. It was confirmed that the survey will close 16/03/14, after which results will be collated and publicised.
David Chidgey (DC) added that in order for the survey to have an impact, it was important to involve as many organisations as possible to add to its credibility. It is hoped the survey results will attract press attention.
CA spoke of his visit to Ashton Gate with TR and DC last week to attend the Safe Standing launch. He confirmed that Jon Darch of the Safe Standing Roadshow met with Chelsea FC officials at the end of January, and that CST are trying to arrange a visiting from the Safe Standing Roadshow before the end of the season as it is important for supporters to see it as part of the campaign’s information programme. TR added that a Chelsea Supporter and CST member, Mark Allen, is undertaking research into Safe Standing with the FSF and is keen to work with us going forward.
- Viagogo and other secondary ticketing agencies
TR confirmed that he is undertaking a benchmarking exercise into ticket prices across the Premier League, but this has been hampered due to difficulties in locating a contact at those clubs where no Supporters Trust exists. He added that THFC’s Trust have launched a campaign against the club’s partnership with StubHub, and stated that his findings thus far had established that Arsenal have the best secondary ticketing system, a not-for-profit exchange with low overheads. TR went on to say that he had seen 14 touts in c100 yards on the way to Saturday’s game, and the Police seem unwilling to take action.
- Football in the community
CA advised that CFC historian Rick Glanvill had asked the Trust if they were providing to supply volunteers to help tidy up Brompton Cemetery. It is hoped CST will devote a Saturday to this during the summer, and CFC will provide tools and refreshments.
- Future of Stamford Bridge
TR confirmed that there was nothing to report at the present time, other than a number of CST board members had attended the recent CPO AGM in a personal capacity.
3. Key engagements – club, local community, other PL trusts etc.
· Club
There has been no formal meeting with CFC since the last SGM, although there has been dialogue on specific issues.
· Other PL Trusts
TR & Ross Mooring (RM) attended a national PL Trusts meeting in Birmingham and Theresa Magee (TM) attended a Supporters Direct London & South East Regional Meeting. TR said that different trusts, inevitably, had different focuses – the Manchester United Supporters Trust seem mainly concerned with the Glazer family and the club debt, Arsenal’s Trust place a strong focus on shareholding and financial issues, and Spirit of Shankly are highly motivated on ticket pricing. TM said that from her experience at the meeting she attended, CST are regarded as having a broad range of interests, and the work on benchmarking has attracted interest from other PL trusts and also those in the Championship.
4. Questions / Motions from CST members
CST secretary Paul Jeffrey (PJ) read a question received by email, which asked if the club could make more effort on subsidising away match tickets rather than travel. CA answered that this was a fair point, but that no other club currently appeared to be doing as much for their fans in respect of travel subsidy as CFC. It was perceived throughout the room that CFC deserved credit for their action, and it was noted that Everton FC had used the PL subsidy sum to refurbish a local church as a community centre, rather than putting it into tickets or travel. DJ added that CFC had been subsidising travel as long ago as 2005.
A member put forward the view that £5 per annum membership for CST is too little, and this should be increased to generate funds for, say, a PA system to be used at meetings. He added his agreement over treatment of supporters and suggested parliamentary lobbying.
A member cited the treatment of football supporters compared to supporters attending other sporting events (e.g. rugby). He added that there needs to be a sensible debate about the treatment of football supporters.
TR replied that it is a concern that people are stigmatised and targeted for trying to recoup their outlay on tickets. CA stressed that supporters need to be careful to whom they sell tickets. DC put forward the view that CFC may be trying to “keep Viagogo sweet” by picking on soft targets. A member stated his experience last year when an individual to whom he sold a ticket for a European game at face value followed him to the turnstiles and then disappeared. The season ticket linked to this match ticket was subsequently withdrawn, and he believes he was the subject of a trap. TR confirmed this was one of the issues Amanda Jacks of the FSF would discuss in her talk.
Beth Wild (Chelsea in America) disagreed with the possibility of raising subscription fees. She also stressed the need to liaise with the club on touting issues, citing the difficulties her members have compared to her home country, where purchasing tickets from touts is regarded as normal.
TR confirmed that this whole ‘selling on’ issue would definitely be on the agenda on CST’s next meeting with the club. A previous speaker from the floor reiterated that they believed that Viagogo is putting CFC under pressure regarding ticket sales. DJ responded that he and CA have represented individuals accused of touting this season. He went on to say that he has suggested the setting up of a “safe zone” where supporters can dispose of unwanted tickets without penalty. A member suggested that an in-house system might be more trouble than it’s worth to CFC, however, TR responded that it works at Arsenal FC, and the CST wants to put pressure on the club on this issue. He added that CFC are not responsible for street touts and this issue needs to be taken up at the Fans Forum or the club needs to approach the Police. AJ stated that if Chelsea wanted the touts gone, then they would put pressure on the Police. CA observed that Hammersmith & Fulham Council tried to have the Police issue 24 hours bans from the area to touts. This was a tactic which had proved successful at the Wimbledon Tennis Championships. [Laughter from room]
A member stated that if the club wanted to tackle the touts, they could. DJ commented that the club were after the “Mr Big” of touts. Wayne Croxford repeated the need for lobbying. TR added that Dan Levene of the Fulham Chronicle newspaper has reason to believe that the law does in fact cover the “runners” who waylay passers-by but do not hold tickets. He added that CST should be looking to influence policy here. SK commented that a contact in the Police had told him that the Police were “on top of touting and had nearly nipped it in the bud”. For himself, he couldn’t understand why supporters were unable to re-sell tickets through the CFC ticket office. A member added that he was aware that Rangers FC host a secondary ticketing facility with a reduction. TR said this sounded similar to the Arsenal operation and should be an aspiration for other clubs.
5. Question & Answer session with Amanda Jacks, Football Supporters Federation caseworker, on policing and related issues at football.
AJ began by explaining her role within the FSF and how she helps supporters. Asked how CFC’s policies on breaches of ticketing, etc. compare with other clubs, she replied that the club is one of the most draconian and unsympathetic. She went on to answer questions on best practice, praising Crystal Palace FC, and cited problems with clubs where safety officers are former policemen who approach their new duties in the same manner and often there is little recognition that they are dealing with paying customers who’ve afforded their club much loyalty (not to say financial input) over many years. She confirmed that it is unusual for supporters to receive reimbursement in respect of withdrawn tickets, even if any case against them wasn’t proved, and this was difficult to fight due to ticketing terms and conditions.
CA cited the problems encountered in stewarding at away games, and asked if there was any nationwide procedure. AJ responded that she wasn’t aware of each individual club’s policy, but agreed there were problems. She commented that clubs may be defensive about complaints, and it is unusual for them to apologise for errors or acknowledge they may actually be in the wrong. A member commented that there particularly seem to be problems with away fixtures in the Midlands and North West. AJ agreed that North West clubs seem to feature heavily in complaints, but wasn’t aware of problems in the Midlands where the police have positively changed their approach to match day policing. Sub-contracted stewards seem to particularly attract complaints, and matches against teams in Liverpool and Manchester are also higher risk category, and treated as potential public order problems. She reminded the meeting that the FSF run weekly surveys for supporters who have attended away games to fill in and these help identify problems. TR commented that at some grounds supporters can be searched up to three times, causing intimidation and frustration. AJ responded that the Green Guide (Management of Matchday Operations) sets out standards for stewarding. Recently, problems have been seen at some matches where prioritising searching for pyrotechnics appears to take precedence over issues arising such as congestion at turnstiles. She has suggested balancing the need for pyro searches without causing congestion, but authorities have not been in agreement. DC commented that if pyro searches are prioritised over congestion, this might be an issue for the press. AJ responded that some journalists would be sympathetic here, but otherwise it might be suggested safety issues arising are a matter for a news desk, who would in turn send the story back to the sports desk.
A member commented that security were there to be seen to be doing something, i.e. taking lids off drinks. AJ responded that some clubs have amnesty bins for pyro, and clubs are not obliged to disclose search data. The only statistics available are the annual Home Office arrest data.
A member pointed out that netting was put in place at Manchester City, thus obscuring the pitch. AJ confirmed this would be addressed at a meeting in Manchester on 05/03/14 involving herself, Chelsea, Manchester City, Greater Manchester Police, the Chelsea Supporters Group and the CST, and appealed for anyone with feedback from this game to put it in writing to her.
A member asked if there was evidence that congestion led to civil disorder and crime. He felt that ultimately the clubs “didn’t give a damn” if fans were inconvenienced, as it was no skin off the clubs’ noses.
AJ commented that queues on their own don’t cause problems, but how they are controlled/managed by police and stewarding might. She feels that football can an introspective industry and it’s easy to blame fans and not look at their own operations. Neil Beard (NB) asked what could be done to change this. AJ replied that she’s only as good as the information she receives and can work better with the fans behind her. Supporters tend to shrug off negative experiences but she confirmed she would be presenting a strong case at next week’s Manchester meeting as she feels that the possibility of smuggled pyros is not sufficient excuse for three searches. A member commented that many fans were unaware of how to report problems. AJ responded that her door is always open, and CA confirmed that CST are always willing to pass on complaints, and fans shouldn’t let it lie – everyone needs to be treated fairly.
CM asked AJ what could be done to lobby effectively, and how could supporters help. AJ replied that the lobbying issue is a work in progress, and completing FSF surveys help. They can only act on evidence received, and she appealed for supporters not just to tweet about problems, but to write to CST/FSF. The more of a picture that can be built up, the more they can build up practice. And they also want to hear “good news” stories too. A member asked if they only covered UK matches, to which AJ replied yes, but they want to hear about supporters’ experiences abroad.
This concluded AJ’s talk, and TR thanked her for her participation, with a round of applause being given for a very interesting and helpful discussion.
6. CST End of Season Party
TM confirmed that the end of season event, “An Audience with Mickey Thomas & Joey Jones” would take place at The Black Bull on Friday 9th May. She was also able to announce that in addition to the Q&A, raffle and buffet previously advised, there will also be an acoustic performance from members of the band, “The Beautiful Game”. She went on to advise that tickets would be available to purchase at the end of the meeting, and thereafter would be available to voting CST members on match days until the end of March. Thereafter they will be available to non-voting members and the general public at £25 per ticket, however any CST member wishing to purchase tickets will still be able to take advantage of the discounted rate.
7. Any Other Business
A member commented that one of the issues with persistent standing is that it causes problems at the back of the Matthew Harding Lower – supporters who have to stand because others in front are standing lose the view of the opposite end of the pitch, in effect making these seats restricted view, although full price is charged. Another member agreed, and stated stewards weren’t interested in assisting. There appears to be no policy to assist supporters here, and it ruined his experience as he couldn’t see 90% of the game. DC agreed that these seats should be publicly advertised as “restricted view”.
Business concluded, TR declared the meeting closed at 17.00 hours.
